Cry,+the+Beloved+Country


 * DIRECTIONS: Each student in the group is responsible for inventing one discussion question. This discussion question must be posted on the Monday of each week, ensuring time for discussion of each question. Each member of the group, including the person who invented the question, MUST respond to the discussion AT LEAST twice EACH week. Your participation in these online discussions, along with the amount of effort and reflection put into your responses, will account for a portion of your Literature Circle final grade. Each time you post a discussion question or a response,you MUST skip a space from what was written above, and you MUST begin your writing with your last name and first initial so I can mark your participation. It would also be helpful if you choose a specific colour and stick to that colour each week to identify yourself with also.

Week 4 Discussion Question: HandS: The results of the trial that Absalom wanted did not turn out the way he had planned. Absalom Kumalo was sentenced to death by hanging. The other two men that were with him when he committed the crime were found not guilty and were discharged. Let's discuss if we think this situation was fair or unfair. Have there been situations in your life that have been unfair? How did you resolve those situations?

ArseneauK- I th ought the sentence was extremely unfair. Absalom killed a man and yes, he should have gone to prison but he did not dederve a death sentence, which is a completely unnecessary punishment. The two others who were there with him knocked out the servant with a bar, while they lied and got away with it, the man who told the truth was reprimanded. I believe the judge was unfair and he did not assess the situation enough. I believe it is totally unfair to be sentenced to death, especially when he admitted to his crime and was willing to take the consequences. I guess it just shows how unfair the judging system is and how the officials do not take enough time to assess the situation fully. I was wondering if someone influenced the judges decision, like a person close to the two other accused. **


 * HandS: I agree. I think the sentence was unfair. Absalom made a mistake and he was willing to acept the consequences. He was telling the truth unlike the other men that were with him. I think the court should have taken into account of how Absolum told the truth and was honest. He very much regretted killing the man. The whole affair was divasting but for there to be 2 lives taken away? That seems unfair. I think he should of done many years in jail. I think if Absolum was given a second chance he would have made a difference in his life. The other men that were with Absolum knew they were going to hurt somebody. They knew a servant was in the house and they needed to hurt the servant. It was obvious that they were lieing. They should have been punished too. **

BerkC- I too believe that this sentence was unfair and quite extreme. Absalom, Matthew, and Johannes all broke into the house to steal money together and Absalom and Johannes both brought weapons. Johannes even knocked out the servant with his crowbar and could have killed that man. Maybe the court did not consider this as important because the man Johannes beat up was a native servant and not a white man like Arthur Jarvis. There definitely should have been consequences to their actions as well or else they will think that they can always get away with crime. I also think that having Absalom hung until he dies was over the top. Maybe they could have sent him to a prison or a reformatory institute where he could learn to abide by the laws. I'm sure he would have changed his ways if given the chance. 

StillwellA- I TOTALLY did not expect the judge to sentence Absalom to be hung. I think it was ENTIRELY unnecessary and uncalled for. Abalsom did without a doubt do a terrible thing in which he should have been punished for, but, being hung was a little over the top i thought. I was expecting more a long the lines of him just going to jail for a really long time. The fact that he admitted to the crime and told them the truth about it being a mistake should have made the charges a little less extreme. I think it was crazily unfair how the other two boys he was with that night did not get any charges against them what so ever. They should have looked at all the boys as equals because they all did something very terrible. Breaking in, and hitting a innocent man out with a weapon that could have killed him should have been looked over a little more. I just think everyone should have been punished. I was just very shocked with the results while reading.

ArseneauK-I agree with Anne, the punishment was completely unreasonable. I think that every once in awhile people are faced with situations when they are unfairly judged and have to deal with the consequences for something they never did. I remember last year,during math class, a girl beside me was passing notes to her friend and whrn the teacher looked over, he thought I was passing the notes and so I ended up with a detention for something I never did. I know this isn't a very good comparison, a death sentence to a detention but I still felt horrible knowing I received an unfair punishment. Sometimes not everything is fair and we have to deal with the consequences, but I thought that with a trial so serious, the judges could have looked further into the case to see the shooting was accidental. In the end I thought the sentence was completely unfair and uncalled for.

BerkC- I remember once when I was in elementary school, someone in my class had written grafiti on one of the chairs. We all knew who had done it, but no one wanted to be the one to tell our teacher. Since no one would say who had done it, my teacher gave our entire class detention. Even worse was that on the day of the detention, the person that had actually written the grafiti wasn't at school. I remember being very upset about this, even though it doesn't seem like that big of a deal now. However, at the time I couldn't believe that I was being punished when I had done nothing wrong. Like Katharine said about her example, I don't feel this is a very good comparison. People say that life isn't fair, which is true, although most people probably don't experience the extent of injustice that Absalom did.

StillwellA- I remember one time when I was in elementary school and one of my classmates broke a window in the class and wouldnt confess to what he did. After the teacher asked everyone who did it, no one would say anything and she gave us all a detention. Its pretty much the same deal with Courtney and Katherine, but I totally did not think it was fair and i just remember being mad about it because i knew the truth and I knew I did not do anything. It definitely does not compare to Absalom, but then again, I have not done anything that he does. I just think life is not fair, it never really will be. And not EVERYONE is ever really going to be satisfied with the final outcome. I honestly think the judge should have looked at everyone a little more and he would have realized that the other two men did infact so something that deserved punishment. HandS- I remember this year in one of my classes some guys were messing around and being rude to the teacher. The teacher got very frustarted but the guys kept on being rude. The teacher lost it and made everybody have detention. It was not fair as half the class was telling the guys to stop and just wanted to get on with the lesson. I didn't think it was fair that I got punnished along with the people who were being rude. It is hard to compare our situations with Absalom's. But we can relate as we know how it feels to be treated unfairly.

 **HandS: I believe that Absalom shot the white man because he was afraid. Fear can do strange things. It is hard to imagine being in his situation. He was so focused on stealing the money to provide for his family that it probably was such a surprise when the white man was home. At that very instant he was probably so scared himself and the consequences that firing the gun was the best solution. I do not think that Kumalo has fully forgiven his son. We all make mistakes. Kumalo probably sees in his sons eyes that he did not ever wish to take somebody's life. I think Kumalo has hope that his son will one day make up for his mistakes. Kumalo loves his son; therefore will live with his mistakes.**
 * Week 3 Discussion Question ** **:ArseneauK-Absalom Kumalo wanted a trial, to prove he only shot because he was afraid. Do you believe this? Why do you think the pastor forgave his son so easily?, and have you ever seen someone you know being in court on trial? **

BerkC- I also think that Absalom only shot the man because he was afraid. He seemed to be in such pain over what he had done that I don't think he'd want to do another wrong deed by lying about it. I argee with Sarah that suddenly seeing the white man standing there must have been a complete surprise and with the gun in his hand, shotting the man probably seemed like an easy solution. Absalom wasn't thinking straight in that second of panic and didn't realize how horrible a thing he'd done until it was too late. I really feel sorry for Kumalo. First his sister, then his brother, and now his own son has committed the worst crime of them all. It may be a little harder to forgive Absalom than his siblings because he raised his son and now his son has gone against everything that Kumalo stands for.

<span style="color: rgb(29,150,205);">ArseneauK- I believe that Absalom shot the white man by accident. When his father asked him about it, he seemed crushed by the crime he committed. He must have been really surprised at the white man being home, and when you're scared sometimes you do things that are not in your nature. I believe this is what happened with Absalom, he was scared and the first thing he though of and the only thing he could do was shoot. I think it is really sad how much pain the pastor must be going through, finding out his sister's a prostitute and a few days later, his son is a murderer. It would be really hard to forgive, but I think the partor really wanted to forgive his son.

<span style="color: rgb(255,0,0);">StillwellA-Oh man. I agree with all of you. I really think the only reason Absalom shot the white guy was because he was truly afraid and it all just happened without thinking. I really think that if he hadn't just pulled the trigger and just had even a few more seconds to think, I dont think he would have killed him. I think he is really a good person, he just needed to do something to help provide for his family. Im sure all he wanted was to get the money and clothes and leave and he probably never imagined killing a person when he agreed to the job. I dont think Kumalo ENTIRELY forgives him, but it is clear he really wants to because he loves him and believes he didnt mean to do it. You can tell though that Kumalo still cant forgive him because in reality he does know what he did, and taking a human life is the worst thing you could possibly do to someone.

<span style="color: rgb(29,150,205);">ArseneauK- I personally have never been at or seen a trial, but a few years ago, my uncle had a minor trial, it wasn't anything serious, nevertheless it still makes you nervous to think that someone you know is standing before the judge. I can barely imagine how it would feel being on trial for murder, you would be so scared and it would definitely be hard to face the fact that someone you know did something so terrible. I think Kumalo handled the trial situation very well, though he must have be terrified on the inside.

<span style="color: rgb(128,0,128);">BerkC- I also have never attended a trial, nor has anyone I know ever actually been on trial, but I agree that it would be such a difficult thing to go through, especially if someone you cared about was accused for something as serious as murder. If it turned out that they were guilty, it would be hard decide if you should ever trust them again or if you'd want to continue having a relationship with that person. It would be especially heartbreaking if you truly thought they were innocent and were not given a fair trial. I wonder if the South African courts had the same "innocent until proven guilty" system that we have here. It seems from the book that the media focuses more on the crimes committed by natives. <span style="color: rgb(255,0,0);"> StillwellA-Yea, I have never attended a trial before, although, I do remember a while back my oldest brother needed to go for something we all knew he didnt do. Luckily nothing bad came from it, and he really was innocent. But I remember it was definitely scary to think that he could actually have done something so bad that needed to be seen before a judge. I also know that at the first we were all a little sad because we werent one hundred percent sure we could believe him, but as time passed and the end came we were all very happy to find out that he hadnt done anything. I also think Kumalo handled the whole situation very well, we all know it hurt him very much, but he didnt show it as much as one might. He was very strong, but unfortunately, it turned out that his son was guilty and the situation was just not that great. I am very thankful no one else I klnow has been on trial, and I really hope nothing bad like that ever happens.

<span style="color: rgb(227,171,237);">HandS: I have never attended a trial, nor have I ever known somebody who has been on trial. I can only imagine the emotions that the person or the people who support them go through. It must be challenging to have complete faith in the person. I understand some of what Kumalo was feeling, and I can understand that it would be difficult to forgive Absalom. Kumalo knew that Absalom was guilty therefore it must have been hard to have hope that the sentence would be for the better. The court had complete control on how Absalom's future, if he would have one. That must have been so nerve racking. Courtney, I like the point you made. I have noticed in the book that the media focuses more on crimes comitted by natives.


 * Week 2 Discussion Question:<span style="color: rgb(255,0,0);">StillwellA- Stephen Kumalo went to Johannesburg to search for his sick sister Gertrude. When he finds her he sees that she is a prostitute living in a very poor neighborhood. Immediately he asks her to come home with him and without hesitation Gertrute agrees. Why do you think Kumalo was so forgiving of his sister? Can you relate this experience to one of your own? Have you ever helped someone you cared about? Maybe a friend or a family member, or perhaps someone you just felt really needed help? **

<span style="color: rgb(128,0,128);">BerkC- It seems to be Kumalo’s nature to forgive people easily, maybe because he is a pastor. I think he realized that his sister had let the rush of being in the big city and the freedom she found there get the better of her and had lost her conscience. When she became desperate for money, she took what she thought was the easiest route, not seeing the error of her ways. However, I think the fact that she accepted Kumalo’s offer to live with him so easily shows that she was not happy being poor and desperate. I think he is able to forgive her because she is his sister and he loves her and does not want her and her son to live without care. I think he believes that Gertrude is willing to change her ways and to earn money the right way from now on, now that Kumalo has opened her eyes to how wrong her old ways were.

<span style="color: rgb(29,150,205); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">ArseneauK-I think that Kumalo is so forgiving because, first of all, he is a pastor, and it's his sister. I have siblings, and I would forgive them if they did something completely wrong, I mean you spent years with that person, you would always want what's best for them. It would be hard but I think Kumalo was ready to forgive and wanted to save someone, and not ignore someone so utterly helpless and lost. Kumalo is a pastor, it's his job to forgive and show people how to live the right way. Also, he set out to help his sister and his son, he truly wanted them to be happy, and safe. If he wasn't ready to forgive and forget, he wouldn't of made his way to Johannesburg.

<span style="color: rgb(227,171,237);">HandS: You both make very good points. Katherine, that was a good point you made. Kumalo went to Johannesburg to look for his sister (and son) because he wanted to make sure they were safe and happy. I think Kumalo was so forgiving because Gertrude is his sister and he loves her. I also think that he saw how desperate and unhappy she was. The author doesn't mention this but maybe he looked into his sister's eyes and saw that she wanted to change. One time my brother stole money from me that was important to me because I was going to save it for the future. I was so angry and disappointed in him that I really didn't want to forgive him. But then he apologized and I saw in his eyes that he truly meant it. Of course, I would have eventually forgiving him even if he hadn't have apologized. I think my brother learn his lesson because he saw how hurt I was. I think it might have been the same for Kumalo and Gertrude.

<span style="color: rgb(29,150,205);">ArseneauK- Although I've never saved someone from a difficult situation, I can definitely can see how readily you would want to help. Someone, last year took something from me and when I confronted them, they denied even though it had my name written. I decided I was going to forget about it has not waste my energy disliking her, and I was just going to ignore her. I know I made a good decision because, even though she made a mistake and didn't fix it, on my part it would be alot easier to ignore her than to waste my energy disliking her. I think that it is very important to forgive and forget, and I believe that that is what Kumalo decided to do. You have to keep an open mind and move on.

<span style="color: rgb(128,0,128);">BerkC- Even though I've never been in a situation exactly like Kumalo's, I do relate somewhat to how he reached out to someone he thought needed his help. When I was in elemetary school, a new girl moved here. At first everyone imidiately decided she didn't belong and would not include her in anything. However, my friend and I did not think this was fair, especially since no one had even givin her a chance. We started asking her to play with us at recess and soon other people saw that she was actually really nice. That girl was then able to forgive the people who had ignored her.

<span style="color: rgb(255,0,0);">StillwellA-You guys all made super good points. I totally agree with you all when you say you think Kumalo forgave her because she is his sister, and he will love her forever no matter what she does. Maybe its also because he is a priest and a very forgiving person, but I know if I saw any of my siblings in need of reaching out to, there would be no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't help. You can really tell that Gertrude needed help because when Kumalo informed her he would take her in, she immediately agreed. I know if I had been in Gertrudes position I would have done the same, because it is clear the way she was living is no way to raise a child or even live in good health. I know I would also be soo thankful to my brother for taking me in, because everyone will need help at least once in their lives and right then, is when Gertrude needed it most.

<span style="color: rgb(227,171,237);">HandS: I have never helped a family member or anybody in a situation like Kumalo annd his sister. I have helped people in smaller ways, though. Sometimes my brother needs help with his homework and I am willing to help. This can relate to how Kumalo helped his sister. I also help my parents with various chores around the house. I help my friends with a lot of things too. It just shows that when you love somebody you will do anything to help them. You wouldn't not want to help them and see them suffer. You would probably feel very guilty because you knew you could have helped them. I know that I would help my friends and family, even if they haven't talked to me for years, if I saw in their eyes that they would do thier best.


 * <span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);">Week 1 Discussion Question: <span style="color: rgb(128,0,128);">BerkC- When Kumalo arrives in Johannesburg, everything is foreign to him and he's confused and overwhelmed by this unfamiliar situation. Let's discuss times of our lives when we faced new challenges, describe the experience, and see if we can somehow relate to how Kumalo felt being in Johannesburg.

<span style="color: rgb(233,37,37);">StillwellA- An experience that I can relate to with Kumalo would be when I first arrived at FHS. I was amazingly scared and had SO much trouble finding my way around school. I didn't know where to start, who to ask, or honeslty anything about the school at all. I was confused and stressed because I could not find anyone I knew. I definitely know if I arrived in a town such as Johannesburg, and did not know anyone, I would be without a doubt lost in an instant. Luckily, Kumalo found Mr.Mafolo and was guided to where he needed to be. Just like him, after a while of being very lost, I was able to find people that were happy to help me out. It all turned out good in the end for me, and I know that because Kumalo was helped he ended up feeling warmly welcomed too.

<span style="color: rgb(227,171,237);">HandS: I agree with Anne. The first day at FHS was an experience like Kumalo's in Johannesburg. Although, when I first arrived in London, England is the experience that I most relate to with Kumalo. London is a big city and very confusing, everything was very different, like the streetlights, the direction of trafic and, of course, the accent. Just like Kumalo I remember feeling confused, lost and afraid. But I overcame those feelings and took advantage of the new experience. There are always going to be times where we will have to face new things and meet new people. Now that we survived our first day at high school, I think our new experiences will be joining clubs, first day at a job, courses, things like that. There will always be new experiences in our lives and I think we should embrace them and learn from them. As we read further into the novel I have a feeling we're going to find out how Kumalo embraced his experience in Johannesburg. **

<span style="color: rgb(29,150,205); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(29,150,205); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">ArseneauK-I definitely agree! I've been in situations where I feel completely lost, confused and have no idea where to go. I see why Kumalo would be so afraid and unsure in the city of Johannesburg, because where he is from, it is a small South African village where the most dangerous issues are if a drought came or if there was no food. Suddenly he is thrust into an alien environment where there are shootings, drugs and alcohol around every corner. He was very unsure of where to go and where to start, and I think everyone can relate to this. I remember the first day at FHS, thinking I was going to be completely lost in this new place where I could so easily get confused. Though after I found people I knew, things became a bit easier and I realised, even in the most alien environments, we can find at leat someone or something to relate to.

<span style="color: rgb(128,0,128);">BerkC- That's so true! I remember my middle school's grade 8 trip to Quebec City and how everyday we were free to explore the city, so long as we met back at a certain time and place. At first, my friends and I had no idea how we were ever going to find our way around a city so much bigger and complex than Fredericton, especially when everything was not in our first language. We were always sure to stay close to the meeting place so that we would not get lost. I'm sure that was how Kumalo felt as well, being in a new environment and not knowing how to get where he wanted to go and also being unfamiliar with the customs of Johannesburg. However, as my friends and I experienced more and more of Quebec City, we became more adventurous and got a better idea of which streets went where and were soon able to navigate our way around the city quite easily. I'm sure that as Kumalo spends more time in Johannesburg, he'll become more confident in his ability to make his way around the city as well.

<span style="color: rgb(255,0,255); font-family: 'Lucida Console',Monaco,monospace;"><span style="font-size: 99%; color: rgb(29,150,205); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">ArseneauK-I agree, that the more he experiences Johannesburg, the more comfortable he will be with his surroundings. I think that when you travel to an unknown, foreign area, the best way to get around or to understand the culture is to find an alliance or someone you can relate to. Just as Kumalo met a fellow pastor, Mr. Mafolo. Mr. Mafolo helped Kumalo become familiar with his surroundings and gave the pastor a link to the city as well as his own area of work. I believe that anyone could somewhat adapt to a new setting as long as we are connected to something or someone who lives there. Two years ago, I traveled to Orlando Florida, and even though it's not a complete different city, it' s still different that my usual routine, I knew my mom had been there before and somewhat knew the area so I could understand a bit better.

<span style="color: rgb(128,0,128); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">BerkC- It's definitely easier to adjust to a new situation when you know someone that is more familiar with the surroundings. During the last weeks of summer break, right before I started at FHS, a friend of mine who was in grade 12 told me the rough layout of the school and also who to ask if I did get lost. This really helped me feel more confident when starting the school year. I'm sure Kumalo was just as thankful to Mr. Mafolo for being kind to him and guiding him to Msimangu's house, especially since Mr. Mafolo was a complete stranger. I think I'd find it hard to trust someone that I'd never met before from a city that I had never visited, but luckily Mr. Mafolo was a honest man, unlike the person that robbed Kumalo when he first arrived in Johannesburg. Being robbed definitely would have been discouraging, but fortunately there are people like Mr. Mafolo who are willing to help out others in need.

<span style="color: rgb(227,171,237);">HandS: Good point, Courtney. Along with the challenge of being in new surroundings Kumalo also had to find people who could be trusted. Now that Kumalo has gotten use to Johannesburg we are starting to discover other challenges that he is facing. One of the challenges is confronting his sister. He had heard various things about her but he wasn't exactly sure how she would react to him. Seeing somebody you love that you haven't seen in awhile is a challenge. You are always scared about their reactions. Luckily, his sister wanted to change her life and move back to her hometown. Another challenge Kumalo facing after his challenge with adapting to Johannesburg is finding his son. As we are reading more into the novel we are discovering that this is becoming a very difficult challenge. Kumalo is also hearing things about his son that are not promising. Hopefully, this challenge will turn out fine for Kumalo. I don't think it is about how hard or easy a challenge is, I think it is about how you take control of it and react to it. Kumalo so far is doing very well with taking control and doing his best throughout his challenges.

<span style="color: rgb(255,0,0);">StillwellA- I agree with you all. I also remember when we went to Quebec for grade eight. I was sooo excited, but also so scared because I knew there would be no way I WOULDN'T get lost. I have only ever gone outside of New Brunswick once, and it was to Quebec. I am really not used to traveling and going places that aren't like home. So when we went to Quebec, you can understand there was so much I was not prepared to face. LUCKILY, there were some really nice people that had no problem with helping out, I was very thankful and I'm sure Kumalo felt the same way when Mr.Mafolo came and helped him. It is always scary going new places, but I now know there are lots of people willing to help you find your way around if you ever need it.